Season 3 I don't know what I'm looking at

Hey VH
Here's something I thot of re: the prophecy...
"A burning anger, unless prevented, at vulgar costs, this woman will render the greatest power unto utter desolation."

Perhaps there shouldn't be a comma after the word prevented... ^_^
"A burning anger, unless prevented at vulgar costs, this woman will render the greatest power unto utter desolation..."
And maybe we should reconstruct the words given to us into a clearer sentence. You have to admit the translation leaves something to be desired. ;)
So what about... -_-
"This woman here depicted will possess unseen marks, the signs that she will be the one to bring forth my works, bind them with fury and a burning anger; unless prevented at vulgar costs, this woman will render the greatest power unto utter desolation."
Therefore is Sydney, at sometime in the future, going to possess all of the works of Rambaldi and using them in anger and fury to destroy the greatest power. And who is 'the greatest power', a nation, an evil doer? :rolleyes:

:cool:
 
lenafan said:
Hey VH
Here's something I thot of re: the prophecy...
"A burning anger, unless prevented, at vulgar costs, this woman will render the greatest power unto utter desolation."

Perhaps there shouldn't be a comma after the word prevented... ^_^
"A burning anger, unless prevented at vulgar costs, this woman will render the greatest power unto utter desolation..."
And maybe we should reconstruct the words given to us into a clearer sentence. You have to admit the translation leaves something to be desired. ;)
So what about... -_-
"This woman here depicted will possess unseen marks, the signs that she will be the one to bring forth my works, bind them with fury and a burning anger; unless prevented at vulgar costs, this woman will render the greatest power unto utter desolation."
Therefore is Sydney, at sometime in the future, going to possess all of the works of Rambaldi and using them in anger and fury to destroy the greatest power. And who is 'the greatest power', a nation, an evil doer? :rolleyes:

:cool:
nice thought here ...

and who is the evil doer? Sloane himself ... because I still don't think he is the saint he is painting himself to be ...
 
So why are people so positive it could be Sloane, but not Irina? Daughter vs Mother? What confrontation could be more epic?
:devil:
 
Yeah, like the anger of finding out *ew! No!* Irina had an affair with Sloane and *dies* is his daughter - knowing Syd - that might make her a bit, um, enraged?
 
verdantheart Posted on Mar 19 2004, 07:47 AM
So why are people so positive it could be Sloane, but not Irina? Daughter vs Mother? What confrontation could be more epic?

Then if Irina knows that Sydney is the chosen one, would she tell her? Why put herself in danger from a daughter she told she loved? However, one never knows where the writers are going to take this...I don't think (but never positive) that it will be Irina vs. Sydney. Besides Lena Olin isn't back yet...still the drama dynamics are truly exciting if, VH, your supposition is correct.
I personally hope Sloane is our most evil doer :angry: ...I'd like to see Irina beat :D up on him for breaking the agreement, if that was what (Sydney's paternity) it was all about.
:cool:
 
Do you guys think that Sloane is evil enough to be the bad guy? It sounds like this battle will be of almost biblical proportions, and Sloane, although granted a very bad guy, has also shown the capacity for love...

Actually, VH I think you may be right, and Irina is the evil one. She certainly has the potential to be more deeply and fully evil! Sloane is more of a senior side-kick type... :Ponder:
 
Rinda said:
Actually, VH I think you may be right, and Irina is the evil one.  She certainly has the potential to be more deeply and fully evil!  Sloane is more of a senior side-kick type... :Ponder:
:rotflmao: Sloane as Irinas side-kick. He would be SO not pleased to hear that. :rotflmao:

But maybe you are right, it is Irina (even thou I personaly hope it is not true) That would be very epic...

If they are not throwing in something even more biblical, like Satan, or something alien-ish.... :angry:
 
Oh my
I think we all may have lost perspective and are forgetting something...

Rinda Posted on Mar 19 2004, 10:14 AM
Do you guys think that Sloane is evil enough to be the bad guy? It sounds like this battle will be of almost biblical proportions, and Sloane, although granted a very bad guy, has also shown the capacity for love...
I hope you don't mean because he bedded the doctor or that he loved his wife or that he 'loves' Sydney?

And Irina has also shown the capacity for love.

Now remember Lindsey told Sloane (Conscious) he knew what he was doing and WHY. He told him to get someone to kill Sydney (and we know how that went down). The assassin Sloane hired (Remnants) tells him he thought Sloane's turning over a new leaf was false and Sloane answers "You're a smarter man than I thought." Unnh uh, please keep in mind little tidbits dropped here and there by our devious writing staff.

And if Sloane is the evil doer what kind of epic battle would it be between False Daddy and his daughter? :rolleyes:


:cool:
 
lenafan said:
Then if Irina knows that Sydney is the chosen one, would she tell her? Why put herself in danger from a daughter she told she loved? However, one never knows where the writers are going to take this...I don't think (but never positive) that it will be Irina vs. Sydney. Besides Lena Olin isn't back yet...still the drama dynamics are truly exciting if, VH, your supposition is correct.
Why not tell her? First, Sydney has no idea at the present (and likely will not for some time) know who "the greatest power" is. Does Irina know or merely suspect that it is she? She may have told Sydney that she is the "chosen one" simply to put her on Sloane's tail--to direct her (and maybe us) toward Sloane with regard to the Prophecy.

Meanwhile, Irina has a way out of the prophecy ("unless prevented") and if it is truly "at vulgar cost," it sounds like a simple enough task, eh? And if Irina can "forge" the "bond" that Jack accused her of attempting to forge, it seems hard enough for Sydney to develop the will to accomplish her task, huh? (Another good reason for her to show up last season, other than just getting the parts to Il Dire in her hot little hands . . .)

And if Irina could simply manipulate Sydney into taking down her chief rival (Sloane) through misdirection . . . smooth sailing for her . . . And, who knows? Maybe she even thinks she can get her family to forgive her . . . she'll have all the time in the world to bring them around, once she's immortal.

'Course, I've also seen Jack proposed as a candidate (for the ultimate evil), and while I'm willing to consider him, I think that would constitute an extreme breach of character as drawn. Just about the only way I could see it is if his personality were a false one overlaying a "real" one that we've never seen--one that Jack would probably be unaware of (given his actions) and would have to be somehow "awakened" from. And it would be sort of a cheat to spring that on the unsuspecting audience out of nowhere. Otherwise, we're to believe that everything we lived and suffered through with him is a lie; that he suffered the indignities, pretended to love and sacrifice for Sydney as part of a master plan. And that's not a cheat; that's a betrayal of the audience.
;)
 
Do you agree with Dixon and the others that attempting to deal with Ryan as the Covenant was the correct initial strategy? Did they do enough “due diligence” beforehand? Or do you think Vaughn was right, should they have skipped the foreplay and gone straight to playing their Jack of Spades in this hand of poker?
I think Vaughn was right. Even if Ryan had given them the plans or the bomb, either way, it wasn't going to stop him from making another bomb at some point in the future. Being imprisoned would be the only way to stop him from killing more people, whether in the present or the future.

What do you make of Vaughn’s apparent change of attitude towards Jack’s, um, techniques? How do you take his use of the word “sic,” or is a cigar just a cigar here?
I just think that Vaughn knows that Jack gets results, period. And I think "sic" was just Vaughn's way of saying that. He knows how Jack deals with problems, and therefore, thinks Jack could be the easy answer to the one they faced (Ryan).

Any change in your view of Weiss? Is he up to something--other than being Vaughn's friend, that is?
No change in my view of him, I still think he's just Vaughn's friend. However, I think that he's begun to get suspicious of Lauren because he sees his friend's apathy over the state of their marriage, and I think it concerns him a great deal. I just don't think they'd make Weiss bad. I could be wrong, but that's what I think.

Do you agree that a great deal of the reason--or at least part of it--that Sydney was transformed into Julia Thorne was to undermine her character? Her identity as Sydney Bristow? To make her question herself? Her decisions?
I hadn't ever thought of it that way...I had just assumed that the Covenant needed her to not be "Sydney Bristow" in order to fulfill something Rambaldi related. But, that's a good point. They could break her as Julia Thorne, force her to become someone she wasn't, someone she would never be. And yes, I think it did make her question herself, her motives for doing what she did during those two years (like having an affair with a "bad" guy, Simon). But mostly I think it's just because they couldn't have her be Sydney Bristow. They needed SB gone, for some reason, probably Prophecy related.

Do you think that Sydney is becoming more like her father? Do you think she is becoming more morally ambiguous? Do you think others are trying to force her into positions in which she must decide between bad and worse moral choices?
Well, no, not exactly. I mean, when Vaughn suggested siccing Jack on Ryan, she didn't want to go that route. And she was horrified by Jack "killing" Ryan and bringing him back to life. I think this season, we have seen Syd do some things that I don't know if she would have been able to do in previous seasons (example: stabbing Vaughn). But, I still don't think she's becoming morally ambiguous, or more like Jack. I mean, she didn't offer to try to coerce Ryan into giving her the codes like Jack did. She was just going to sit by Marshall's computer and hope for the best. Or, it seemed that way to me. And, when she tries to get criminals to confess secrets, she usually starts with the humanitarian plea (with Bogden, with Ryan). With Ryan, unfortunately, it backfired. Jack, on the other hand, is no such humanitarian. He does what he's got to do to get results. And I do love him for that.

Do you think that Sloane is attempting to isolate Sydney? Do you think that Irina is involved in this?
Yes, I think Sloane is attempting to isolate her for something Prophecy related. I think Irina may be aware of Sloane's plans, but I don't beliee she's actively involved in helping him isolate Syd.

Why do you think Barnett is sleeping with Sloane? (Eww! Eww! Eww! Evil!--I can only suppress it for so long . . .)
I like to think that Barnett is in cahoots with Jack, and is holding the cards in their relationship. I like to think that she enjoys Sloane's company, and enjoys having sex with him, but that for her, she's not more emotionally involved. Hopefully, she's got her eye on some other big prize. Sadly, though, I think that she'll probably be another casualty of Sloane's manipulations. But I hope not.

And, yes, she wasn't in this episode, but I've been thinking about it. Lauren: more closely allied with Sloane or Irina?
Sloane. I still think Sloane is either loyal to the Covenant, or possibly the head of it. If Lauren had been working with Sark all along, I would buy that she and Irina were more closely allied. However, I think (or maybe I hope) that Sark has a different agenda than Lauren, and is using her to get what he (or Irina) wants. Therefore, I think Lauren is loyal to the Covenant, and Sark is loyal only to himself (and Irina, possibly).

Another great article! :smiley:
 
:argue: and the debate goes on...
Still, altho willing to consider Irina as the ultimate foe, :Ph34r: I think it is Sloane. :angry: I saw 01 -01 episode and, if he was her father or suspected he was, why would he approve her being eliminated...after her inability to return to SD-6 and her job? <_<
Ummm I think he is it. (n)

Irina failed to get the parts of Il Dire. Sloane did by operating one step a head of her. Why was she so willing to have the CIA get the artifacts? WHy not go after them herself when in Mexico City? Why even help SYdney by killing the gunmen? Why even tell Sydney anything about the Prophecy--good or bad?:banghead:

Jack would not be candidate for the ultimate evil...that I definitely agree with you for sure. :cheers: (y)

:cool:

What no spy Daddy column?
 
Do you agree with Dixon and the others that attempting to deal with Ryan as the Covenant was the correct initial strategy? Did they do enough “due diligence” beforehand? Or do you think Vaughn was right, should they have skipped the foreplay and gone straight to playing their Jack of Spades in this hand of poker?
What do you make of Vaughn’s apparent change of attitude towards Jack’s, um, techniques? How do you take his use of the word “sic,” or is a cigar just a cigar here?

Lets face it, Jack can be a vicious man when provoked (I think this is where the "sic" comes in) and he gets results. He's good as a last resort. I think Dixon was right 'playing nice' at first, catching more flies with sugar and all that, but they didn't do their homework very well though.


Any change in your view of Weiss? Is he up to something--other than being Vaughn's friend, that is?

Hmmmm, I'm not sure what to make of Weiss at the moment, Greg Grunberg has been picked up for JJ's new pilot so Weiss will have to be written out somehow.....

Do you agree that a great deal of the reason--or at least part of it--that Sydney was transformed into Julia Thorne was to undermine her character? Her identity as Sydney Bristow? To make her question herself? Her decisions?

I'm not sure if it was the reason but it certianly has had that effect. Syd thought of herself as a 'good' person before all this, now she has found out that deep down she has the capacity to do terrible things.

Do you think that Sydney is becoming more like her father? Do you think she is becoming more morally ambiguous? Do you think others are trying to force her into positions in which she must decide between bad and worse moral choices?

Tough question..... only time will tell.

Do you think that Sloane is attempting to isolate Sydney? Do you think that Irina is involved in this?

YES, divide and conquer, oldest trick in the book, by isolating her and giving her self doubts, he weakens her. Like lenafan I have difficulty believing Irina to be evil, so I have to say no to Irina beng involved, but I admit to being biased.;)

Why do you think Barnett is sleeping with Sloane? (Eww! Eww! Eww! Evil!--I can only suppress it for so long . . .)

BARNETT YOU FOOL!!!! Phew!!! Now that that's out of me....
I hope Jack didn't order her to do this because I think he's made a terrible mistake if he did. Sure, some will say it's to get into Sloane's head, but what if he gets into her head (If he hasn't already) Barnett is in the unique position of having access to the hearts and minds of the CIA's agents (Syd and Jack in particular) this would be a handy weapon for Sloane to have.....

And, yes, she wasn't in this episode, but I've been thinking about it. Lauren: more closely allied with Sloane or Irina?

As above: Can't believe Irina is evil so I've got to go with Sloane on this one.


Thought provoking as always verdantheart. Good job. (y)
 
Hot column this week sweetie you were totally dead on on well everything. Nice to see snarkSark.

I would like to add that all the friends and family of those contected with the Spain tragedy are in our prayers!
 
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